Monday, December 08, 2008

Beautiful Analogy

"One incident at Moody particularly got my attention. The elevators in the guys dorms are notorious for not closing or opening when they should. Often students will press the “close door” button over and over and over - until the door closes.

I remember once standing in the elevator, looking down at that small button, thinking how stupid it was that people would keep pressing it - when the door was going to close anyway. The thought popped into my head and nearly knocked me over: isn’t this what prayer is? Don’t most Christians intentionally pray in such a way that their faith is safe? Not only this but we all prayed for things that were probably going to happen anyway. Were we all just as stupid as those students who keep pressing the close door button over and over?" - Josh


In reply

"I noticed on another thread that you seem to care a great deal for mathematics. If this be so, do you not see the necessity for absolute values?"

I don't see how an extrauniversal concept such as mathematics has any bearing on values, other than in explaining how they arose.

I think we could accidentally slide into two sided straw man here, so I'd rather just clarify my position. I don't beleive that there are any absolute morals, and think that there is evidence for that in the research done with many tribes of only recently found forest people. I am especially fond of a recent discovery of a tribe that had no concept of divine anything. Not even demons. For the first time, it seems that we have found a naturally materialistic race of humans. I think we're all just one great product of that simple mathematical process of evolution.

"Dogmatic Science suggests that life is a simple matter of 'Just add Water'. This is a lie. Life 'may' require water, but it does not arise from water alone."

If you do some chemistry, you begin to realise that the chance of life arising is not zero. As soon as we have a non-zero chance of something happening, in an infinite universe, it will happen. Because we are here to ask the question "what caused us", we can be pretty sure that the universe "rolled the dice right for life" at least once, quite a few million years ago, in order for us to be here. How can you need anything more than that to admit that life can be created without divine intervention? (which itself begs more questions or what created it)

I myself have dabbled in creating without creating. I am a programmer, and once I allowed some algorithms to grow themselves. The only input I gave them was the same input the universe gives our gene's: limited resources of space and time and energy. The results were interesting but expected because i already had a good grasp of the evolutionary process at this point. So, did I create life? Yes, but did I design the life? No. My creation of life was just speeding up the initial "waiting for life to start" by making it start, but probability gives us the alternative to a divine spark. Another aspect of this: was the life i created useful? No. Are we useful? Well, I certainly don't see how we're helping anything at all... we're not even very good at looking after the world we've been born on. We have no use either. We are good at lots of things, but are good for nothing. There is no goal for the human race because there cannot be goals unless we are created with a goal in mind. It's a hard one to shrug off that, but it's part of most ancient teachings. Shrug off the world's goals and just become one with the cosmos.

I hope, for your sake, that you're strong enough to think about this offering I'm giving you. Allow yourself the time to contemplate it before throwing it away as "fundamentalist evolutionistic bigot speak" as one of your fellow creationists declares all of us atheistic evolution understanders to be.

(I use the term understander because I don't believe evolution, because that would be without reason. I can say that I believe there is no god, because there is no proof of that but still feel that there isn't.)